We decided, well, what if we create a burger restaurant that was based solely on American regenerative agriculture? And then we also added the principles in from our Paleo Valley company. No refined sugar, no seed oils, all organic. And so we just created this kind of fast casual burger concept that takes the health of consumers and the planet into consideration. Feel to burn baby? Oh, yeah's a slam dunk. Absolutely breathtaking. Welcome to the Bike to Bites podcast. I'm your host, Garrett Best. This is a companion podcast to the Bike to Bites television series, and you could check out the links in the show notes to find out more information about where you can watch the series. Now, in today's podcast, I'm going to be revisiting Boulder, Colorado, and my guest today is Autumn Smith, the co-owner of Wild Pastures Burger Company. Now I'm excited to get into this episode, but before that, I want to take a moment to thank our sponsor. Plus, for the support of the Bike Tobys podcast, when your tomorrows are built on technology, you need to partner with Superior Insight, with expertise in cutting edge innovation across ai, security Cloud and workplace transformation. E plus is on the frontline of today's modern enterprise E plus where technology means more. Now, I want to briefly go over the route that we took on our Bike to Bites Boulder episode. We rode approximately 18.8 miles and it was quite the journey. Our first stop was to kick the day off with some carb intake at Moxie Bread Company, and it was fantastic. I will tell you that we experimented and we sat down and we met with the owner, with the general manager, I'm sorry, Rick Hickerson and Laura Fenden, who's the director of operations there. And we tried almost everything that they had at the restaurant, at the bakery, a chocolate croissant, the King Egg qui, the apple croissant, Danish butter croissant, the sour Do loaf. It was carved up, baby, that's what it was. And it was a great way to kick off the ride. From there, we moved on to our next destination, which was Black Belly Market, and that was quite the experience. We sat down with Kelly Kechi, who's the butcher chef, and Jeff Foster, the director of Operations there. We tried. They're very well known for if the carbs weren't enough. At Moxie Bread Company. Another favorite of cyclists are burritos, and they have this unbelievable breakfast burrito with scrambled egg and hatch green chilies, tater tots, believe it or not, tater tots in the burrito and cheese. It was incredible. And we moved on from there at the restaurant because they are also known for their lunch and dinner business as well. And we had a Banno sandwich, which was incredible, a charcuterie board, and how do you come to Colorado and not have lamb? And this lamb was from the Buckner Family Farm with some chicory, pistachio, gremolata, brown butter leach cream, pickled cherries, mishu. It was quite delicious. And if that weren't enough to fill you up, we moved on of course to Wild Pastures Burger Company where we had some of their signature burgers, some of their fries that are cooked in Tallow and strawberry milkshake served by their son. I met up with all of them, autumn and Chaz Smith, the owners, and that was quite a good time. And then we finished our ride at River and Woods with my friend, very, very dear friend, Daniel Asher, who's the chef and owner of the restaurant. We started with an heirloom barta salad with cucumbers and crisp tomatoes, skins, and pistachios on top, a farmer's market salad with organic greens, local wildflower, honey chickpea croutons, some gnocchi. And I will tell you, this is one of my wife's favorite dishes, and this was absolutely incredible. Spinach herbs for ricotta and Parmesan cheese, lemon cream sauce with lemon zest on top, absolutely incredible. And a braised short rib homemade linguini using the mxi flour for the Moxie Bakery that we visited early in the morning with local It was quite the adventure. And then of course, we ended our journey on the bike back at the Base Camp Hotel with a local beer. And it was a great way to finish off the ride. So that was it. And now I'm excited because today we are thrilled to have Autumn Smith joining us. The passionate owner of Wild Pastures Burger Company in Boulder, Colorado, I should say, co-owner with her husband. Autumn is dedicated to serving up delicious grass-fed burgers, made from sustainably sourced ingredients, prioritizing health and flavor in every bite. She's also a fervent advocate for local farming and environmental stewardship. Join us as we dive into her journey, discuss the importance of supporting local agriculture, and discover how she brings her culinary vision to life here at the restaurant. Get ready for an inspiring conversation that celebrates healthy food community and the great outdoors. So I'm super excited to welcome our guest in today's podcast episode Autumn Smith from Wild Pastures Burger Company and Wild Pastures. Autumn, thank you so much for joining us. Or should I say Dr. Autumn Smith? Now? Is that appropriate? Yes, but not necessary. And it's so good to be here with you, Garrett. I just love your show and your mission, and it's just a pleasure to spend time with you. Oh, likewise. We really had a great time when we were filming in Boulder and filming at your place while Pasture's Burger Company, which is an amazing concept. And I want to dive deep into that. And I want to kind of walk backwards into what led to the creation of that, because it didn't start with the Burger Company restaurant, it started before that. And perhaps you could give us a little history for the viewers at home and the listeners who are listening to the podcast. Talk to me about the genesis of the Wild Pastures Burger Company, its mission, and kind of how that fed or was fed from a previous endeavor, which was wild pastures. Yes. So it all started when I was about 10 years old, but don't worry, I'm not going to bore you with all the details, but I had digestive issues that no doctor could treat. They told me I had irritable bowel syndrome, and so I had intermittent pain and bloating, and as I got into my teens, it started to affect my mental health. We didn't really understand it at the time, but there's this gut-brain access that people are learning about now. And so I got on the psychiatric meds and talk therapy and it just didn't really change until I got kicked out of my parents' house because my emotional and physical pain brought me to substance abuse, and I just didn't feel good. And luckily, I still loved dance and learning. And so I went off to college and went to Los Angeles and became a celebrity fitness trainer. And my story changed when I met my husband because even though I was making everything happen and I had a smile on my face, he realized I was suffering. And I had been for a long time. And he's like, we're going to get married and we're going to start something new. We're going to do things differently. And no doctor in Los Angeles knew what to do with me either. And he got online and just saw, oh, some people are changing what they eat and their digestive issues are being remedied. And I didn't believe it could be possible, but we did. We changed our diet and it changed my life. Both my physical and mental health we're so transformed that I left my job at Tracy Anderson. I was working with celebrities and it was great, but I went back to school. I got a master's in, now I just finished my doctorate and we started our first company, paleo Valley, just to provide high quality options that make a healthful organic, grass fed diet possible. And then when I started working with people in holistic nutrition, we found out I was advocating for grass fed and finished meats, pasture raised against factory farm meat, but my clients couldn't find it. And if they did find it, they couldn't afford it. And so my husband had the great idea of why don't we connect these amazing American regenerative farmers that we're working with for our other company to the audience that would really appreciate their project because the farmers didn't know how to market. They're like, we want to raise animals in this way, but we don't know where the people are who will pay a little bit more for our products. So we decided to be the middleman, and that was Wild Pasture's Burger Company. And so Chaz and I moved from Colorado, I'm sorry, from California to Colorado. And when we got here, we could not believe that there wasn't a great grass fed burger. And so we were also long in ground beef through our delivery service. We ship frozen meat everywhere in the United States. And so we always have a little bit of extra grind because it's just a higher percentage of the animal. And so we decided, well, what if we create a burger restaurant that was based solely on American regenerative agriculture? And then we also added the principles in from our Paleo Valley company, no refined sugar, no seed oils, all organic. And so we just created this kind of fast casual burger concept that takes the health of consumers and the planet into consideration. And that is still absolutely delicious. And also, oh sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. No, go ahead. Also, go ahead. Finish that thought. I was just going to say, I came from Montana and I have family members. My brother-in-law specifically was a ranch family, and they brought Alan Savory, the father of regenerative ag in America, at least over to their farm in 1982. We have other farmers in the family that also encouraged us along the way and just really helped us understand how important this was. So this is our family where I grew up. It's just kind of in our blood too. So. Let's just talk a little bit about Paleo Valley for a second, because that's where it started. That was your first entrepreneurial endeavor into this space to try to rectify some of these issues that you had been dealing with and kind of make it available to others that could benefit from it. So what was Paleo Valley Company in its initial form, and how did that translate into this chipping meat all over the country with using grass fed pasture raised regenerative agriculture? Was Paleo Valley initially doing before it morphed into what it is today? Yes. So it all began when I was on tour with Jennifer Lopez and I had just reclaimed my health and I was eating very clean and my digestive issues were gone. I was feeling like a new person, and we were in a different country sometimes every day. And so when we were in France, my husband got to come visit me and I said, bring me some meat sticks. I'm eating out of my suitcase. It's really hard. And so he is like, okay. So he brought a suitcase full of grass fed meat sticks, and when he got there, I ate them and I still did not feel good. And I thought, what is happening here that these are grass fed, they should be clean. And so when the tour was over, I decided I'm going to create products that people can take on the road because I don't like to be in the kitchen. It's unfortunate, but I don't. And so I started calling people about the ingredients. I would go through what are the ingredients in these meat sticks? And we found one called encapsulated citric acid, and it's the industry standard, but it's made from seed oils and genetically modified corn. And I thought, and it just melts into the product and preserves it, drops the pH. And I thought, oh, this seems unnatural or something that could potentially be causing it. And so we decided to create a fermented version without that ingredient. And so our beef sticks, who knew I would go from JLo to beef sticks, but I did. And they became very. Very, that's a whole nother show we could create. I know JLo to beef sticks. It's a pretty radical shift, but I know people started to really love them. And so we became kind of a beef stick company, and in doing so, we got to know a lot of farmers and ranchers, and we were always doing grass fed. But then we learned about this kind of beyond grass fed kind of concept where they were using regenerative agricultural practices, rotational grazing, crop rotation, things like that, that were actually regenerative, not just sustaining the health of the land, but regenerative. So let's stop there for a second because before you continue, I want for the viewer at home, the listeners who might not be familiar with the term regenerative agriculture, I think this is a perfect opportunity since we're talking about it, to define it, to explain it so that people at home can understand what that actually means. I know what it means, but not everyone does. And believe me, it was my visit with you that really spawned my homework into before I met you, where I started to learn more about what you were doing in this space. And then when we sat down and we had our conversation, I was just blown away. It filled out what I had already been kind of researching before I met you, and it's eyeopening. So I would love for you to share that with the viewer. And the listener. Yeah, three types of agriculture happening in the country today, and right now, the dominant form is conventional. So conventional is the first. It's this extractive form of agriculture. We've been a relationship where we're taking out more than we're putting back. We're using chemicals that kill things. We're using a lot of tillage. We're breaking up the soil and we're using animals in a way that degrades the health of the land because they're in concentrated factory farms, rather than actually being used in a way that heals ecosystems. And we'll talk about that in a second. So that's the first one. The second is sustainable agriculture. That's organic, right? That's something that's not necessarily making the land worse, but there are practices still in organic agriculture like tillage that could still degrade the land. And because two thirds of our soil structure or soil health has been degraded, we can't sustain that, right? If we want to see in the future are future generations able to still maintain a healthful food supply? Some people estimate 60 80 harvest left. Nobody really knows because soil is degrading at different rates in different places, but we cannot sustain our current level of soil health and expect to thrive in the future. And so many people are practicing today. The third type of agriculture, which is called regenerative agriculture, which at its heart nature is regenerative. We've come in and kind of created systems that work against nature. But when we really listen to nature and seek to get to know a plot of land and take it from one state to a higher or more worthy state, that is the definition of regenerative agriculture. And when those principles are applied, which are things like taking into context, living root, always maximizing the amount of photosynthesis integrating animals, and on and on, you can sequester carbon very successfully. You can improve water holding capacity, which is actually really critical because water is a major issue, and there are droughts, there are floods. And this isn't because we don't have enough water, it's because our soil is no longer able to hold that water and we increase biodiversity. So there is so many different benefits of simply getting out of nature's way, paying attention to the land, and using a regenerative mindset. And one of the most fascinating stories, I don't know if you know the story of Alan Savory. You? Yeah, no, no. I think we talked about this when we were together. So go ahead, share with our viewer and our listener. So Alan Savery, he was a rangeline ecologist down in Africa, and he believed that he needed to get rid of 40,000 elephants. He saw his certification and he decided, okay, this is the intelligent move along with other experts. We're going to cu or kill 40,000 elephants. And when he did, what he found was that the land didn't get better, it got worse. And we had this widespread narrative today that animals are always destructive to the land, but that doesn't make sense because they co-evolved with the land. They're good for the land. It's just our management of them that is to blame. And so he created a system called Holistic management where you use animals in a highly managed way that mimics natural predator prey cycles. And that has been found to be very successful in healing the land. Also, a lot of times in the literature, you're not going to find holistic management because in academia there's a little bit of a, I don't know, kind of like a stance against it, but they use something called AMP grazing, adaptive multip paddock grazing. So you can see this even demonstrated in the literature, and that's the type of grazing that has had the biggest benefits. So now that we've explained regenerative, that was what you guys were doing when you started the beef stick. You were working with these farmers who were using those practices to create the beef stick products that you created, and then it kind of expanded to go beyond the beef sticks into other forms of meat consumption and poultry and pork. But using this philosophy, these processes that you had already bought into with your first endeavor, which was to create these meat stick products for people to consume. So let's talk about that. How did it go from the meat sticks to now being able to go online and order these incredible meat products and poultry and pork products from you that have been raised along the lines of what you've just described? So we found out over 90% of the products you're going to find in grocery stores today are from factory farms. And we just thought with the antibiotics they're using and the hormones and the grains and the soy, the destroy the planet, and just the pollution that those systems create in the inhumane treatment of animals that we needed to create a system for alternatives. And besides, we create products that we want ourselves for our family, for our community. So because those farmers confided in us and said, we want to do this, it doesn't feel good in this conventional system. A lot of farmers actually feel trapped in that system. We want to get out of the system, but we don't have a safety net, right? Because a lot of times the subsidies are going to these conventional type operations. And so sometimes it can be a gamble for regenerative producers and farmers, even though that might be the direction they want to go. And so we decided, because we knew marketing, let's help these farmers and ranchers have an audience have and create a market for them. And so we did, and we just started in one area of the country, and we were working with a small number of producers and wild pastures. The meat delivery service was so well received that we were then able to move into basically become nationwide in only a matter of years. And the difference is it's only raised in America. Most meat delivery services come imported from other countries because almost 75% of the grass fed meat in America comes from other countries. But again, we're like, no, we need to help American farmers have that market and have that incentive to change these production systems because the way we raise our food determines the health of our environment. We don't have to destroy nature in order to create food, and actually we can create food in a way that restores nature. So yeah, it went from beef sticks to learning about how important it was for these farmers to have a market and realizing, okay, I think we can find the people who would appreciate those products. And then just moving from one small region throughout the country. And the other part of our mission is we have to keep it really cost effective. We don't want this to be an elitist thing because in order to ever put a dent in factory farming, it has to be widely accessible. And we believe everybody deserves access to high quality food no matter who you are and where you live. And so it's really a mission to transform the meat industry out of the factory, bring it back to nature, bring it back to America. We saw what happens when in Covid when our meat supply and the people controlling our meat are outside of the country. And four huge meat companies control 85% of the industry, and some of those are in other countries, and that's a really scary place to be. So. We don't want CEOs in other countries making decisions that affect our communities, especially when it comes to the health of our environment and our people. So yeah, our mission is just provide every single kind of meat product that the people want in a way that supports American farmers and in a way that is affordable for people in a way that regenerates the ecosystem. And it's not just for the viewer and listener. It's not just beef products, it's pork products, it's poultry products, it's even line caught fish. I believe now that you offer through people you've established relationships with who are all practicing and following the standards of what you've identified as being necessary in order to eat healthier and to preserve our planet, basically. Yes. And you have to know that pastured pork and chicken are even harder than beef to find really high quality sources of, but it really matters. And so yes, we are doing pork and chicken and beef and even salmon, and we're going to have shrimp very soon, hot dogs. And we're constantly kind of expanding our line of offerings the more farmers we find, because people are wanting to go and a lot of people are shifting to regenerative. And it's a really exciting time. It is exciting. And I think I want to take a step for a second back, and this idea of, it seems in today's modern culture antithetical to the idea that eating healthier means eating meat and eating more of it and eating chicken. And as opposed to trends that lean towards, you've seen alternative forms of alternative meat products. You've seen big pushes for vegan diets and not, I have no point of view, per se, on what people gravitate towards or what they choose, but I think in the media, there's this feeling that eating meat products over the years that you've been consuming media, eating meat products is bad for you, and that people need to look for alternatives and not eat meat products. And yet you don't subscribe to that. And I think we're going to talk a little bit more about a series that you're working on, and we're going to get into that in a second. But what do you say to those people who are watching, who are listening about like, well, wait a second. You're saying to me that you yourself suffered from all of these health issues, and your answer to solving those problems was the consumption of more meat. How do I balance that in my mind with what I've heard for many, many years in the media as the dangers of consuming meat, too much of it, too much red meat leads to coronary disease and blah, blah, blah. So I'm just curious to know what your point of view on all of that is, and especially now that you've, this is world that you live in daily. Oh, man, this is such a good question. And I was someone who avoided animal products in my youth, and I think that was probably part of it. And if it doesn't really make sense when we think about it that an ancient food is causing modern diseases, right? We've been eating meat for 2 million years. Some archeologists like Bill Schindler believe that it's one of the reasons that we have such large, powerful brains, but there is this mainstream narrative. And in episode one of that series, we actually dive into the origins of our fear of meat. And they're fascinating. There's one of them that I think fascinates most people is religion. The ideas of the Seventh Adventist Day Church, and I'm not, again, I think people should be able to eat whatever they want. I just wanted to do the series so that it wasn't being demonized for those who would be open to consuming it. So we found out that basically l and g White, she's a prophetess of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, and she had visions that meat free diet was more holy. And she actually inspired Dr. John Harvey Kellogg to create cornflakes. And I don't know if you, do you know why they're created? No, I don't. Okay. They believe that meat made people masturbate. And so he believed if he created cornflakes, it could help prevent masturbation and lustful desires, really. And so yes, that's. Where, that was the origin of why cornflakes was created. Yes, it was. Wow. And it's fascinating. And they also were the first to bring the meat alternatives to market. Their first one was called protos. And so most people think, okay, well how much sway could they possibly have? But Seventh Day Adventist Church, they own hospitals. They're in our dietary guidelines committees. One of their, Lena Cooper was actually a dietician who founded the American Dietetic Association. And so there is some of this religious bias. And then we have other people from the sugar industry obviously benefits from people believing saturated fat is the culprit rather than sugar. And so we have Harvard trained scientists who wrote a review demonizing sugar or demonizing saturated fat research from Ansel Keys. Anyway, we have a lot of different, we have animal rights activists, we have environmental activists who believe animals are always destructive to the environment and animal rights activists who want people to treat animals more humanely and research, the research that's demonizing red meat is often epidemiological, meaning observational, meaning people who eat a lot of red meat in America do sometimes have a higher risk of disease, but when they take into account the quality of the diet, which they do in other trials, and you eat meat in the context of a whole food diet, those effects are minimized or they disappear. And there's been research, there's this Nutrex consortium, it's this kind of conglomeration of 14 independent scientists, meaning they don't have any bias. They recently evaluated the best quality evidence to date on red meat, and they actually said there's no reason to change the unprocessed meat consumption based on the best quality evidence available. And another reason people often fear meat is saturated fat. And we now know that saturated fat is not the demon. It shouldn't be demonized in the way that it has been historically. There's been over 20 reviews from all across the world. Nina Titch wrote a lot about this in her book, that saturated fat is a diverse class of fatty acids actually, and you can't always say that it's going to negatively impact health. I actually did my doctorate on a part of this. And so there's a lot of different types of saturated fatty acids, some of which are actually associated with a reduced risk of cardiovascular disease. So it is such a complicated nuanced topic, but is there an effect when you eat a lot of meat in the context of a burger with a bun and fries washing it down with a soda within the standard American diet maybe, but in the context of a whole foods diet and high quality meat that is raised in a way that improves environmental antibiotics, is that type of meat dangerous? I don't think so. And I think there's a lot to be gained from that type of meat because it has a huge amount of bioavailable nutrients that you can't even get from a plant-based diet. And by the way, plant alternatives, plant-based burgers and such, they're very highly processed foods. Many times their inputs, corn and soy and things like that are coming from non-organic systems. And so to believe that they are more environmentally friendly than something like a grass-fed burger raised at white oak pastures, for example. Have you heard about the white Oak pastures. Analysis? No. Okay. So this was fascinating. It's a regenerative farm down in Bluffton, Georgia, and they did a lifecycle analysis. So they took everything into consideration and found that the consumption of their beef was a net positive, 3.5 pounds of carbon or sequestered per pound. Whereas they did similar analysis to beyond burger and beyond meat and plant-based meats. And they found that you had about 3.5 released pounds of carbon per pound produced. So in other words, in order to offset the emissions from a plant-based burger, you'd have to eat a grass fed and regeneratively raise burger from white oak pastures. Now, again, that's context specific. That's one piece of research. But it's interesting that beef could be potentially a more environmentally friendly food than plant-based alternatives and even corn or chicken and pork and all of these other foods. So all that to say, I'm not afraid of meat. I eat a lot of it. And I think my mental health, my physical health protein is great for shutting off your appetite for improving body composition. And people all over the country are speaking out about how important high quality protein is. I think that's the next wave. And so I don't want people to fear animal protein in the way that we used to, because I think many of us suffer when we avoid it because then we just go to more carbohydrate rich foods, maybe more ultra processed foods. And so having really high quality animal products in your diet is beneficial for many reasons, the bioavailable nutrients, the high quality protein, and the fact that it's very satiating. And with your personal health issues that you were struggling with and you turned to this as a solution, did you start to see the results? How long before you started seeing the results of your change in how you approached your diet? It's crazy because I did 30 days and my digestive issues were gone. Really. Were gone, that I had had for over 10 years. My mental health that took about a year and I more stable than I'd ever been. I mean, I was a troubled, I was just always on a roller coaster, and I think it was that blood sugar roller coaster. How did you break out of that? You talked about going back into the earlier part of the conversation, you were thrown out of your house, you moved to California. How did you break, you suffered from addiction, I don't know what kind of addiction, but how did you, and maybe you could share that with us if you're willing to, but how did you break out of that? What was the aha moment that you said, this is rock bottom, I need to change my life, I need to fix things? You know what I think it was, I think the addiction came from this hopelessness. I had this feeling of being broken and no one being able to fix me and just kind of this disconnection from my own ability to improve my health and my wellbeing. I just had learned from our system that I'm supposed to look outside myself. And so it wasn't until something I did could change something so dramatically that I began, I totally shifted to feeling empowered and like, whoa, I can make a positive change. And that can literally not only change who I'm physically, but how I feel. I don't have to just struggle. I remember I would come home and just cry to my husband. I was exhausted. I was on this blood sugar roller coaster, which I think creates a lot more suffering than most people even understand because I'd wake up and I'd have this green juice that had 50 grams of sugar, and then I would crash. And so with my crash and energy came a crash in mood and just productivity and so all day long, and then I would just eat more carbohydrates and crash again. And so once I found stability just from eating fruits and vegetables and meat, that's pretty much what I did. I didn't have that constant up and down anymore. And then all that energy that was being sucked out of me because of it was able to go to something else, to creating something, to going a good job or to being a good partner. My rock bottom was looking at, I'm creating suffering, and it's starting to affect my relationships. It's starting to affect my ability to do my job, and do I really want to continue a life where I just barely make it through every day? I just saw a glimpse of something different, and that was enough. Wow, that was a turning point for you. So your whole life changed when you changed the way in which you, the way in which you kind of fueled yourself in terms of your sustenance, you switched gears and moved to this form of diet that you now live by and that you've built an entire ecosystem of business, a following I should say, around, which is very, very cool. I'm curious. So you start going to these farmers after the beef sticks who were producing all of this great regenerative using regenerative farming, producing pasteurized meats, poultry, pork, and you see an opportunity to deliver that at a very reasonable price and very efficient way of reaching the consumer through a direct online customer base. And where did that idea, how did it gestate from this is what we want to do to it actually being done, and what's been the trajectory of that business? I'm just curious because it's very successful and perhaps you could give some context to what successful means. How did you start, where are you and where are you going with that? Before we get into the Burger company, which was an offshoot of that, which I want to talk about more as well. Yeah. Oh, wow. So it was actually my husband's idea. He's got so many ideas, many of them every day. I'm like, oh, no, not that one. Actually, unfortunately, I said, this is too big. This is a huge mission, Chaz. And we already had Paleo Valley, but he was not taking no for an answer. And so he is like, I know these farmers. I know we can do this. They need us to do this. And so in 2018, we took my sister's husband along with us because he was the ranching family that I was referring to, and he was a CFO and he could do all the supply chain, and he already had preexisting relationships. And so we launched, and initially we had a few hundred customers just right away. We got a few hundred customers, and we were very excited about that. And so slowly over time, the cool thing about this business is there's such a need and such a desire for people to join in this mission because I think everybody understands there's huge problems with factory farms. So often what happens is we'll get a thousand customers and then we have to kind of push back. We can't take anyone else on because we refuse to compromise with the integrity. Like many companies. I noticed on your website, there's a little banner at the top that says, demand has been so great. So your first shipment might take a couple weeks. And I will tell you I am a fan, not just since I'm a fan of the Burger Company, which we're going to talk about, like I said, but I'm a fan of Wild Pastures because we've tried all of the product that you guys sell. And I can tell you Dylan, who's our producer, who's in the other room right now, also tried your phenomenal, phenomenal, healthy, delicious, and we're big fans. So yeah. Thank you. Yeah, there's something really special about regenerative meat. It's like meat is actually a photograph of the land that it's raised on. You get all of these different, what they call secondary compounds in there that I think one day meat will kind of be like wine. People will understand different varietals, but it's very satiating. There's actually plant compounds in there with many different benefits. But I'm so glad that you noticed. The one thing I hear too is that I just didn't expect it to be so delicious, but it really is. And you're right. We are not going to compromise. And it's been hard to tell people, okay, sorry, we're going to have to stop. We can't take you on right now, or we're going to have to make a substitution here to work. We're not going to degrade our standards because we're really, really driven to just make this happen, this regenerative agriculture happen. So today we're at over 30,000 customers and we're creating a really stable supply. We have warehouses throughout the country now, producers in dozens of different areas. We make it as bio-regional as possible. So if you're in the northeast, you'll get a certain supplier. Yeah, we're over 30,000 and we just want to continue to grow and grow and grow. Because as big as that sounds, if you think about Cargill or Tyson, I mean, these are billion dollar companies and they own this market right now. So we know we have a lot of work to do, and that is our goal is just to change the way that meat's raised. And. I love some of the testimonials on your website. While pastures is hands down, my top choice for animal protein, their thoughtfulness with quality, sourcing, sustainability and convenience can't be beat and everything tastes amazing. I trust the company with my family and I highly recommend it to my patients. And that was signed by a registered nurse, it looks like. Can I tell you too, if you think of cage-free or free range, a lot of meat delivery services will do something like that. But these terms are super deceptive because cage-free and free range, they can still be in a warehouse with thousands of other bur. And so this is what again, makes us very different, is our animals are on pasture raising lives that animals should live, right? We're not going to try to deceive you with a clever term that you don't really know how to define. So yeah, I think that just translates into the product and into the way you work with a lot of chefs. It's the ingredients, right, that make them For. Sure. And many of these chefs will talk about how they honor the farmer. Some of these chefs who are working directly with farmers. I remember we shot a documentary on Food Network years ago. It was called The Four Course Men, and we visited a farmer who was raising a heritage hog called the Asaba Hog, and they couldn't be taken off of Asaba Island. But this farmer was given special permission to raise was only on Asaba Island, which is off the coast of Georgia. But this farmer was given a couple of these hogs that he could raise on the mainland, and he practiced very, very much pasture raised, very, very sustainable. Regenerative farming methods were being used in raising his products, his pork products. What's interesting, I was watching one of them hug the hog while we were visiting their farm, and I go, well, you really love this hog. And he goes, of course I do. They make the ultimate sacrifice for us. They give us sustenance, they provide us with the ability to sustain ourselves. We have to care for them, and we have to care for them the way we would want to be cared for. And I think that people will hear me say that, and people who are steadfast about no animals should be sacrificed to provide food. I respect everybody. I absolutely do. But if you're doing it in a way that is the way that humans have been doing it for years, and you're doing it with the respect for the animal, and you go back to Native American culture was always respect for animal. And so I see that and I see how you have taken what you are doing and working with those types of farmers exclusively to provide the products that you're providing. If you're going to eat meat and you're going to eat poultry and you're going to eat pork, the way that you guys are providing it through the relationships that you've developed with these unbelievable farmers who are doing it right, I think is the way you'd want to be consuming these products. It's the only way that I would consume these products. And I know a lot of people who are just like me, and there was a pig farmer that we worked with, and he said his favorite thing is just to be out there watching and interacting with those animals, and their lives are really good lives. Yes, these farmers care deeply and they adhere to the most humane standards possible. And so yeah, I wouldn't feel good about providing any other type of meat because factory farming is so cruel and it's the dominant form and just we need to do better. And you talk about factory farming and you talk about what ends up in our fast food restaurants around the country in terms of the meat products that are being served. And you saw an opportunity, right? That's where you guys then said, okay, we're going to go another level. We're not started with the beef sticks. We've moved to providing these unbelievable meat and now we want to tackle this other issue, which is how do we get a great quality product in what I would consider to be a fast food or what do they call it? There's another term. How do you fast casual, fast casual, fast casual concept, which is what you've created at Weill Pastures Burger Company and it's in Boulder and you only have one right now. And I keep asking you guys, I asked you when we were together, when are you opening more of these? And I know that you both looked at each other and in the interview or it was maybe even off camera, and you were like, well, that's a story for another day. But I would love to talk about the burger company, what you're doing there in that restaurant, what makes it so different and what are your plans to continue what you've done on all these other areas that led to this retail operation? What are you planning on doing with that and are you going to expand that and continue that? Yes, so it was Chaz, and like I said, when we moved to Colorado, we could not believe that there wasn't a great healthful grass-fed burger restaurant here yet. And so we're like, okay, we always say phase five, phase six, we have all of these projects that we're hoping to accomplish. Fortunately, we had a very dear friend come along who's also very passionate about the environmental aspects and actually trained in environmental science and came and said, okay, you guys, I've had this dream too. Let's work together to make it possible. And so he's been really generous in helping us fund all of these. And so yes, right now it's only in Boulder, and what makes it different is all of the animal products come from regenerative American farms. So you are almost never going to find that. Like I said, most grass fed meat is being imported, but these are from American regenerative farms, and so that's very, very unique. The second thing that I think most people go crazy for is the no seed oils. So we all know corn cotton, corn cotton canola, and sunflower soy safflower. These are the dominant vegetable oils used in America today, and there are reasons many experts believe they lead to diligence. And you don't use any of those. In fact, you cook your fries in something that we can talk about. So let's talk about that. Yes, we cook our fries in tallow and it's beef fat, and it's what McDonald's was using before they switched over to these vegetable oils because what I believe they were misled to believe that they would be more healthful, and I actually think they cause a lot of deleterious health effects, but it is delicious. Like Talo has conjugated oleic acid, and it has a great Omega six to three balance. It has very little omega six fatty acids. Actually. Those were some damn good fries, by the way. That's what I'm saying. Yes, they were. Those were really good. And the burger was off the chart. It was amazing. Amazing. Yes. I'm so glad. You think so. Yeah, I think tall fries are my favorite food in the whole wide world. I hadn't eaten french fries in over a year, or not a year, probably 10 years until our restaurant came along. And I was like, wow, okay. These fries are absolutely delicious. So no seed oils and then no refined sugar either, which is so funny. We had a child actually do for a class project, a request and report that we do allow a little bit of sugar or milkshakes, but we are holding steady. We want people to have fast food that is slow grown and still really healthful for them. In your milkshake, your son delivered me my milkshake and it was a strawberry milkshake, and it was crazy good. Absolutely delicious. Yeah. Yeah. So we are just trying to find ways to make food delicious but also healthy. And so we use monk fruit and we have these keto milkshakes that, like you said, they're absolutely delicious. We have 'em in strawberry and vanilla. We have the house-made sauces, and we even do have a veggie burger because we are in Boulder, and I've heard that it's the best one in town, even in that too. And we have gluten-free buns. We do have a bun with gluten, but we really cater to those who are like me, who just have a little bit more sensitive systems, some food allergies or food restrictions, and who are really passionate about the way that food is raised. And all of the sauces are house made, like I said. So we don't even have sugar in the housemaid sauces. We have wild sauce, we have bacon, we have a ranch. We even have zucchini fries, gluten-free, like zucchini, kind of fried things again in tallow that are super delicious. And then actually, we don't even have a soda machine right now. We don't even do sugar in a soda. We have a healthful soda fountain drink machine as well, and bone broth. Yet we have all the things that you would want to maintain a healthful kind of ancestral, paleo keto type diet in a fast casual. Restaurant. So okay, I was at the restaurant, we spent this time together. The restaurant was fairly busy. We were there for four or five hours, and it was a constant flow of people coming in. Kitchen was very busy, open kitchen in the back there. What's the plan? You're not going to just stop at one, are you? I mean, I know everyone wants to not give up on the fearful of wanting to make sure that the quality controls are still there and that we can deliver what we're delivering in Boulder elsewhere. But I can't imagine knowing the two of you and have gotten to know the two of you that there's not big plans in the works. Talk to me about those. Share. Let's reveal for our listeners and our viewers if some great news we can share. Yes. Well, I have to say it wouldn't be possible without our gm, Brandon. He's incredible and our friend Mike, who is working alongside us to make this all happen. But yeah, we're looking, we're starting to look in our second location. So we which was a really tricky time To start a restaurant. And so it was a slow burn at first, but then I think once people started to understand the concept, we have a very loyal following. People are coming from 50 miles, 60 miles, and so we're going to start looking for a new location in Denver. So Denver's our next, and then of course, Southern California, Scottsdale, Austin, Texas. I mean, these are Utah even. They're on our list. And that is our goal. We want to franchise, we want to have them throughout the country. But yeah, like you said, really important for us to maintain the quality of everything. And so we're doing this in a way that we can sustain and not compromise, but we are definitely looking towards our second location at least. Well, that's good news to hear. I mean, I will tell you, there was nothing more pleasing for me. My bike ride over to you. I had to do a little bit of some climbing and then descending before I got to you. And the nice reward for me at the end of that was this incredible plate that you put in front of me of a burger, fries and a milkshake. I felt like it was a kid again, and it was absolutely incredible. And meeting you and your husband and your son was just a real pleasure. I'm curious, you both, you talk about the expansion of the Wild Pastor's Burger company and now you've just completed your doctorate and you seem like you're somebody, the two of you seem like a couple that doesn't sit still. You were mentioning your husband's always coming with lots of ideas. Are there any other things that are on the horizon that are related to the mission of what you're trying to do? And I want to talk specifically about a series that you just completed, which I think you're about to release by the time that our viewers see and watch this or watch and listen to this, it'll already be out there. Let's talk about that and how that came to be. And I think it goes back to the beginning part of our conversation about demystifying and putting a spotlight on more information, more research, more factual things about the meat industry that you wanted to put out there that you felt were not being put out there. So talk to me about this series and what excites you about it. Yeah, so I'm really excited, and this came out because when people would unsubscribe from wild pastures or meat delivery service, we always ask why. And so many of them were saying that they're going vegan for the health of the planet and for their own health. And my husband just tasked me a few years ago and said, oh, autumn, create a few videos and just educate people because in our bubble, we understand that meat is not necessarily the disease causing culprit has been made out to be. And as we talked about, not destroying the environment in certain ways. And so I set off to just make a, he said, do two or three videos. And then the more I dug into the topic, the more fascinated I became, and the more I realized people need to understand this. And so I didn't want them to rely on just my word. And so I got 55 different experts to join me and to allow me to interview them. And then I have this genius videographer and former journalist, Amy Brothers, who was able to put my ideas and all of their clips in a easily digestible way. So what we did was first we start with the history of meat demonization. Why do we even believe that meat is dangerous? And like I said, very fascinating, so many different influences that you wouldn't ever think about. So that's episode one. Episode two went on to saturated fat, cholesterol and red meat. Are they causing disease? And I think you'll find the answer very fascinating. And number three is what is the historical significance of meat? There's these arctic explorers who found out that they could survive only on seal blubber, right? We know the Inuits Eskimos, they eat a large amount of fat, specifically animal fat. Why is it that they can maintain great health whereas fat had been demonized. So we go through the history and the people who actually live on meat and have great health outcomes, and people like Dr. Terry Walls, who reversed her autoimmune condition and helps heal thousands of people. Her stories featured in there. It's a really, really fascinating journey. And episode four is for people who are thinking about a vegan diet. And again, I like everybody to eat exactly how they want to eat, but there's some fascinating research around pregnancy and child development that I felt compelled to share in that one. And we also have X vegan stories of what kind of happened and what happened when they changed their diet. And then six and five and six go into the environmental aspects, and we feature many different regenerative farmers. One that's the most fascinating is Alejandro Carrillo desert of Mexico, and how his neighbors have accused him of stealing the rain because they're right next to him. But somehow through his regenerative practices and we describe how this happens, he gets more rain than his neighbors. And in the desert, it's absolutely fascinating. And of course, Alan Savory is in there in his story. And then episode seven takes you on a journey from my dissertation where I got to work with Dr. Stefan Von. He's this pioneering research out of Utah state, and he's doing research into does the way an animal is produced affect human health? And he's finding the most fascinating findings that yes, even then when you eat up meat from a regenerative model versus a factory farm, do you see changes in human health? Because that's something that a lot of people really care about, and his research has shown that it can lower levels, inflammatory markers, and really fascinating research. And then episode eight is just how do we wade through these confusing labels? And so we just talk about the 10 most deceptive labels in the meat industry and how you can understand them better and what you can look for. It's really exciting, and we look forward to seeing those come out. I think they're going to be coming out on YouTube, right? You're going to be posting them out there, which is great. So we'll put some information in our show notes where viewers and listeners can tune into that. Curious, you've, I've seen many documentaries on I Meat Meet Consumption that the one documentary that comes to mind, which is where they were testing the guy's blood on a regular basis on a meat consumption diet, and they were looking at the cholesterol levels in the blood, and I think you might be familiar with this. I mean, there's been so many of these documentaries that are side of those arguments? Based on the research that you've done, the work that you've been doing in this space, how do you dispel the idea that red meat, in particular I'm talking about now is bad for you, that causes increases in cholesterol, causes cardiac issues? These are the things that we've heard in the media for years about red meat consumption. And I love this idea of looking at what are the health effects of regenerative farming farming as it relates to that same meat that you'd be consuming from? Are there differences, and is that where, is it a fair analysis of what's been done to date based on these documentaries that have been made? And how do you dispel some of those rumors or those myths, I should say? Yeah, and I love this question, and I think a lot of these people making these documentaries have great intentions and maybe also some biases of their own. So that's one thing. You just need to know who is creating it and what their own biases are. But first is cholesterol levels. Two of the main problems with research about meat is that they're of two different types, correlational, epidemiological, where you can't necessarily separate all the factors out. So are people who are consuming more red meat in this country, are they also exercising less? Are they drinking more alcohol? Are they drinking fruits and vegetables? Right. In a lot of this research, what you find is people who are eating lot of red meat are eating it in the context of a health or a standard American diet. They're not exercising 'em as much, and those variables cannot be fully accounted for. that separated this where they looked at people who shopped at a health food store, and if they had a healthy diet to begin with, there wasn't really a difference in longevity between meat eaters and non-med eaters, and also these, what you call surrogate endpoints. So cholesterol level is not the same as death. There a lot of people who believe elevated levels of cholesterol will lead to deleterious health outcomes, but there's also research that contradicts that. And so when you say, I eat meat and my level of cholesterol goes up, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are more likely to die, right? There was actually a study that showed people who are admitted for heart attacks, 75% of them had cholesterol levels within the normal range. So you have to realize, if you look at the research on mortality rather than just surrogate endpoints, perhaps there's a different story that's not being told, which is, and plus just a transient change in a level, a biomarker like cholesterol, that doesn't necessarily mean that's what's going to either. So there's limitations there. The second is, again, in the context of a whole food diet. What else is that person eating? And could those other dietary factors, a lot of sugar seed oils, could these be more responsible for the negative health outcomes? And then last, we don't track the type of meat when they're doing these epidemiological studies. There's not like, Hey, how much meat do you eat? Is it grass fed? Nobody is taking that variable into account. And as we're learning with Dr. Van's research, there are 40,000 compounds in beef, for example. Now we've been measuring a handful, right? On nutrition labels, you see 13 nutrients in the database of the USDA. We track a little bit over a hundred, but there are tens of thousands of compounds in food that affect human health. And when you start to use these more advanced technologies that they're using like Dr. Ble called metabolomics Lipidomics, where they're looking at the tens of thousands, these are dramatic changes from grass fed to grain fed, dramatic like in, I don't know, 60, 50% of the metabolites. And does that translate into change, like real human change? It seems like it does. There's a study out of Australia that looked at eating wild kangaroo and eating beef from a feedlot, and there was significantly lower inflammation in the person eating the wild product than the person eating feedlot beef. So yes, so we have to know what are we looking at? Are we looking at surrogate endpoint? Are we actually looking at total mortality? Can I tell you about one other trial that I think is really important? Sure. Okay. So the Minnesota coronary experiment was the largest trial of its kind to test the theory that replacing animal products with vegetable oils would reduce the risk of cardiovascular mortality. This was done in the seventies, but it wasn't until 2016. Christopher, I believe he's at the NIH, was able to come in and get the full data set because the lead investigator had died and he was able to get the data that was never fully published from his son. And what they found was when people replaced vegetable oils and took out animal fats, their cholesterol did go down, which we know that's a well Ry fact, your cholesterol levels go down, but their risk of death went up. So again, yeah, you have, there's nuance and it's really hard. You can say meat is murder, right? And meat is terrible for the environment, but to make this case that certain types of meat might be better than others, and there's context and what about a whole food diet and surrogate endpoints? These are really complicated concepts and I don't think that we can do it in a snapshot. We can't do it in a few words. And so it's just something that's going to require a little more education, and that's what we're trying to do with this series. It's pretty amazing. People are going to ask, I know they are like typical weekly diet, autumn, what is your diet and your health regimen? I'm curious your life dramatically changed when you moved into the diet that you now follow for those that are listening and watching. What does that look like for you on a weekly basis? That's a great question. Now know that we've had many phases here, because when I first cut out processed foods, which really made up the majority of my diet, it was hard. And I could do it for a few days in a row, and then I would have a day where I just went a little crazy and it took a few years to just get totally whole foods. But basically my diet's really simple. It's fruits, it's vegetables and it's animal products. And I honestly do not feel deprived at all because I feel so good. So I wake up in the morning and I have a cup of coffee and our bone broth, protein powder and chocolate. That's how I start the day. And then I'll probably do some sort of salad for lunch with meat, chicken, shrimp, something like that. And then my snacks are of course our meat sticks or our super food bars or whatever. And then I have a dinner, well, last night we made the filet from wild pastures, and then we make our own little potato chips or we go to Wild Pastures Burger company. So some kind of meat again with fruits and vegetables, and that's really it. Even on my birthday now I have, I'll have three bites of cake or something, but I'm one of those highly sensitive people, and I don't think this is true for everyone. I don't think everyone needs to always avoid processed foods and sugar. I think you just need to find what works for you. But over time, what I've found is I don't feel good when I eat any other way really. When I deviate too much, I'm just not the patient, not irritable mom that I want to be. And so that is just self perpetuating for me. It's. Just do you eat any, do you consume it Like you've got one. And we visited with them this incredible bakery in Boulder. Moxie. Do you consume any grains, like any whole grain products like breads or is that pretty much removed out of your diet at this point? You know what? That heavenly bun at Wild Pastures Burger Company, I'll have that every once in a while. Our gluten-free buns and bread was the hardest thing for me to give up. It really was. But no, I mean, not really. Sometimes I'll have a chip here and there, but I don't believe I do very well with carbs. I'm someone who just doesn't do very well, especially with processed carbs, which bread and chips unfortunately are. And so no, it is really, really rare. Maybe once a month. Oh, okay. And what about exercise? Oh man, I came out of the fitness world. It's like my favorite thing in the world. Every day I've had to cut myself back to 45 minutes a day. Once I got over 40, I realized, I think I'm overdoing it here. So yeah, I do a lot of, I still do Tracy Anderson. I still do yoga. I do a lot of weight training. And I do running still. Six. Days a week. Yeah. When are we going to get you out on a bicycle? Oh, I would take you up on that any day. Next time I come to Boulder. Yes, let's do it. That's what I find on a bike. You can't help but smile. I get this Peregrine, it's exciting. It's, it's really good for the endorphins. I think one of the reasons why I started cycling the beginning, not I think I know was mental health. I'll go on a two hour ride and ride 40, 50 miles and I will just be this feeling this high. You just pure. And I don't listen to music when I ride. I don't put anything in my ears. I just take it all in and take in the environment around me. And I find it to be so mentally cleansing for me in addition to the physical, obviously exercise that I'm getting doing it, but it's become part of my, clearly it's become part of my life and I love it. So I wish I could do more of it. That's something that's a battle that I fight every day, finding the time, making the time to do it, which, but you have to. I try to at least get a hundred miles in a week if I can. And if I could do more than that, that's a bonus. That's amazing. And yeah, exercise is essential for my mental health. I've heard that people have windows. How many days can you go out with go without exercising and still feel like yourself and mind's like Zero? Yeah, I feel like garbage if I don't have over the summer. I ended up, we had some family issues that we were dealing with and health issues, and then we had with some extended family. And then that kind of took me off course a little bit. And then I ended up getting shingles, which was terrible. And I can tell everybody who's listening or watching, do yourself a favor. And I perfectly respect people who don't believe in vaccines, but this is one vaccine that I think you should consider getting because the alternative of getting shingles, which can repeat themselves if you don't get the vaccine. So if you have them once, you can still get them again. And so that was terrible. Absolutely terrible. But yeah. That's. Brutal. So that was the period of time over the summer where my exercise regimen got disrupted and it made me angry. I bet it did. It made me not a very happy person to be around. So I can completely relate to that. That's why I digressed to tell you that story. But you guys are doing amazing things in Boulder, and I will tell everybody who's watching, everybody who's listening, the burger, the fries, the milkshake, the service, the environment, even just being able to sit outside there on that patio area and just chill. And when the weather's great, and even in the winter, Boulder's weather is great because it might snow, but it's sunny all the time. You live at a great place, but you already know that. But I do, I think I encourage everybody, go to Boulder. Go explore. Go explore it on two wheels or on skis or however you want to explore, but stop at Wild Pastures Burger Company and soak that all in because it's worth the stop for sure. So for those that want to learn more about you and where to find you and where to find the series and where to order, some wild pastures, meats delivered to home, why don't you give us all the viewers and listeners the details? Well, thanks Garrett. It's been such a pleasure. I just am so glad our paths have crossed and autumn@paleovalleyor.com is my personal email. I'd be happy to hear from any and all of you. But then wild pastures.com is the frozen meat delivery service where you can get, we've been talking about Regeneratively raised meat for 40% less than other meat delivery services. And then paleo valley.com is the other company. And then Wild pastures burger co.com is where you can learn more about the Burger Company. Awesome. Well, and we'll put some notes, some show notes in the details on our YouTube channel, and so people can find you there as well and learn more about this incredible series that you'll be launching on YouTube, which people should watch and take in. And I can't thank you enough. It's been an absolute pleasure seeing you again and spending time with you. And I am coming back to Boulder, good friend of mine, Daniel Asher over at River in Woods. He's amazing and he keeps taunting me to come back and spend some time there and he doesn't have to. Well come back and spend time with us too. And I love Woodsly. Absolutely. I love Woods. Yeah, they do a really good job. And they were our last stop on our journey to Boulder, and that was a real nice way to end it with a friend and at a great place to dine. It was fabulous, and I love Boulder. It's a great city. You guys are doing amazing things. I can't wait to spend some more time with you when I do come back. So thanks for joining us on today's podcast. I really appreciate it. Thanks, Garrett. I can't wait to see you, and we'll do some biking. All right, sounds good. For more information on this episode, as well as other episodes in this series, head over to our website at Bike to bytes podcast.com. You can also find us on YouTube at Bike to Bytes. Be sure to give us a like and subscribe while you're there. And if you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, we would appreciate a five star rating and a glowing review. It really does help spread the word. Check out our Instagram at Bike debits tv, and be sure to follow my personal Instagram at Garrett Abe, where I post shots of my daily rides and interesting places I visit. If you're interested in watching the Bike Debits TV show, please visit bike debits.com. We also have some really cool stuff of Bike to Bites, apparel and some other things that you can check out while you're there. Well, that was just an incredible conversation, and I can't thank Autumn enough for joining us today. I want to thank our sponsor. E plus E plus helps organizations harness the power of technology for truly transformative results from AI and security to cloud and workplace transformation. Plus, brings you the right solutions at the right time, in the most efficient way. Plus is on the frontline of today's modern enterprise. Check them out@eplus.com. I also want to thank all of you for joining us today. For more information about where you can find us, please follow us on our YouTube. Please subscribe to our YouTube channel, follow us on Instagram. We're at Bike debits TV on Instagram, and we look forward to having you here with us on more of our podcast as we continue to explore the world of culinary cross roading with cycling. And glad that you're here with us on that journey. Remember, until next time, pedal, eat and repeat.